Talk:Saint Joan of Arc (Jeanne la Pucelle)

La Hire's prayer

“God, do unto La Hire as he would do unto You, if he were God and You were La Hire.”

Joans heirs

from Gutenberg 1909 book: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/19488/19488-h/19488-h.htm#CHAPTER_III

This time she announces that it is her mission to deliver Orléans. And the anointing is not to come to pass until this the first part of her task shall have been accomplished. We cannot fail to recognise the readiness and the tact with which the Voices altered their commands previously given, according to the necessities of the moment. Robert's manner towards Jeanne had completely changed. He said nothing about boxing her ears and sending her back to her parents. He no longer treated her roughly; and if he did not believe her announcement at least he listened to it readily.

In one of her conversations with him she spoke of strange matters: "Once I have accomplished the behest Messire has given me, I shall marry and I shall bear three sons, the eldest of whom shall be pope, the second emperor, and the third king."

Sire Robert answered gayly: "Since thy sons are to be such great personages, I should like to give thee one. Thereby should I myself have honour."

Jeanne replied: "Nay, gentle Robert, nay. It is not yet time. The Holy Ghost shall appoint the time."[389]

To judge from the few of her words handed down to us, in the early days of her mission the young prophetess spoke alternately two different languages. Her speech seemed to flow from two distinct sources. The one ingenuous, candid, naïve, concise, rustically simple, unconsciously arch, sometimes rough, alike[Pg i.79] chivalrous and holy, generally bearing on the inheritance and the anointing of the Dauphin and the confounding of the English. This was the language of her Voices, her own, her soul's language. The other, more subtle, flavoured with allegory and flowers of speech, critical with scholastic grace, bearing on the Church, suggesting the clerk and betraying some outside influence. The words she uttered to Sire Robert touching the children she should bear are of the second sort. They are an allegory. Her triple birth signifies that the peace of Christendom shall be born of her work, that after she shall have fulfilled her divine mission, the Pope, the Emperor, and the King—all three sons of God—shall cause concord and love to reign in the Church of Jesus Christ. The apologue is quite clear; and yet a certain amount of intelligence is necessary for its comprehension. The Captain failed to understand it; he interpreted it literally and answered accordingly, for he was a simple fellow and a merry.[390]

Catholicism

[XXXVIII-XLVII] As to these Articles, [covering among other points her claim that all she had done was at God's bidding; that she had never committed mortal sin 'notwithstanding that she has in fact performed all the actions customary to men of war, and even worse'; that she had declared that her voices were not on the side of the English 'affirming that the saints in glory detest a Catholic realm, to their shame'; that she boasted that her voices assured her of salvation if she kept her virginity, and that she is so assured; that she blasphemed and denied God and the saints]; in answer to many questions which were put to her

Yolanda of Sicily

Of all the revisions, diversions, and distortions of Saint Joan's story and legacy, I don't think any of them mention that another woman, Yolanda, Queen of Sicily played a crucial role in the story. Yolanda was the Dauphin's mother-in-law. She, too, must have believed the Maid, because she personally financed the campaign on Orléans. That's no small thing, but it is rarely mentioned. Michael Bromley (talk) 14:23, 29 December 2024 (EST)

"voices decieved me" >> to clarify

Here for 1930s book on Joan: Saint Joan of Arc : born, January 6th, 1412, burned as a heretic, May 30th, 1431, canonised as a saint, May 16th, 1920 : Sackville-West, V. (Victoria), 1892-1962 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

that makes a big deal out of it. Michael Bromley (talk) 10:34, 31 December 2024 (EST)

Sainte-Beuve quotation "Pauvre Jeanne d'Arc!"

« Pauvre Jeanne d'Arc ! écrivait Sainte-Beuve. Elle a eu bien du malheur dans ce que sa mémoire a provoqué d'écrits et de compositions de diverses sortes. Elle a inspiré à de grands poètes tragiques, aux Shakspeare et aux Schiller eux-mêmes, des inventions odieuses ou absurdes ; elle a inspiré au plus bel esprit et à la plus belle imagination une parodie libertine qui est devenue une mauvaise action immortelle; elle est en possession de faire naître, depuis Chapelain, des poèmes épiques qui sont synonymes d'ennui et que rien ne décourage (1). Quelques vers touchants des Messéniennes qu'on a sus par coeur, sont une bien petite satisfaction après tant d'outrages (2). »

from LES MARTYRS VI

still can;'t find the original... from one of Sainte Beuve's essays ... Sackville-West opens her book on Joan w/ part of hte quotation:

Pauvre Jeanne d'Arc!  Elle a eu bien du Malheur dans ce que so memoire a provoque d'ecrits et e compositions de diverses sorts"

Saint-Beuve Michael Bromley (talk) 11:22, 31 December 2024 (EST)

voices & instructions

Jean de Metz testified that Joan had been instructed fro 4-5 years n saving France. She told him:

“Have no fear,” she answered us, “what I am commanded to do, I will do; my brothers in Paradise have told me how to act: it is four or five years since my brothers in Paradise and my Lord—that is, God—told me that I must go and fight in order to regain the kingdom of France.”

Jeanne D‘arc, by T. Douglas Murray_The Trials_The Project Gutenberg eBook.pdf p 224 Michael Bromley (talk) 13:21, 31 December 2024 (EST)

Joan's Prediction of the Battle of the Herrings

https://dn790004.ca.archive.org/0/items/chroniquedelapuc00cousuoft/chroniquedelapuc00cousuoft.pdf

pp 271-272

L'an mille  (juatre  cent  vin<[t-iicuf ',  y  avoit  tinc  jeune

filic  lers  les  Marciies  de  V  aucoiileiirs ,  native  d'un  village

nommé  Domp-Hemy,  de  l'eslcction  de  Langrcs,  qui  est

tout  un  avec  le  villa<i[e  de  Gras,  fdlc  de  Jacques  Daix^

etd'Ysabeau,  sa  femme,  simple  \illageoisc,  qui  avoit

acoustumé  aucunes  fois  de  garder  les  bestes;  et  quand

elle  ne  les  gardoit,  apprenoit  à  couldre ,  ou  bien  filoit.

elle  ne  les  gardoit,  apprenoit  à  couldre ,  ou  bien  filoit.

Elle  cstoit  aagée  de  dix-sept  à  dix-huict  ans,  bien  com-

passée de  membres ,  et  forte  ;  laquelle ,  un  jour,  sans

congé  de  père  ou  de  mère  (non  mie  qu'elle  ne  les  eust

en  

grand  honneur  et  révérence ,  et  les  craingnoit  et

doubtoit;  mais  elle  ne  s'osoit  descouvrir  à  eux,  pour

doubtc  qu'ils  ne  luy  cmpeschassent  son  entreprinse) ,

s'en  vint  à  \aucouleurs  devers  iîcssire  Robert  de  Bau-

dricourt,  un  vaillant  chevalier  tenant  le  parly  du  roy;  et

avoit  en  sa  place  foison  gens  de  guerre  vaillans ,  faisans

guerre  tant  aux  Bourguignons  qu'autres  tenans  le  party

des  ennemis  du  roy;  et  luy  dist  Jeanne  simplement  les

paroles  qui  s'ensuivent  :  ii  Capitaine  messire,  sçachez

T  

gentil  Dauphin,   

qoles  qui  s'ensuivent  :  ii  Capitaine  messire,  sçachez

gentil  Dauphin,   

que  Dieu,  despuis  aucun  temps  en  çà,  m'a  plusieurs

'  fois  faict  à  scavoir  et  commandé  que  j'allasse  devers  le

D  

COUSIXOT  DE  MOXTREUIL.  [1429-

France;  et  qu'il  me  baillast  des  gens  d'armes,  et  que

ï  

»  

je  lèverois  le  siège  d'Orléans,  et  le  mènerois  sacrer  à

Reims,  t  Lcsqiieljes  choses  Messire  Robert  réputa  à  une

moquerie  et  dérision,  s'imaginant  que  c'estoit  un  songe

ou  

fantaisie;  et  luy  sembla  qu'elle  seroit  bonne  pour  ses

gens,  à  eux  esbattrc  en  pescbé  ;  et  y  eut  aucuns  qui  avoient

volonté  d'y  essayer;  mais  aussi  tost  qu'ils  la  voyo

  csloicnt  refroidis  et  ne  leur  en  prenoit  volonté.

Elle  prcssoit  tousjours  instamment  ledict  capitaine  qu'il

l'envoyast  vers  le  roy;  et  luy  fist  avoir  habillemens

d'homme ,  et  cheval  et  compaignons  à  la  condiitre  ;  et

entre  autres  choses  luy  dist  :  u  En  nom  Dieu,  vous

y  

ne  

mettez  trop  à  m' envoyer;  car  aujourdhuy  le  gentil

1)  Daulpb'n  a  eu  assez  près  d'Orléans  un  bien  grand  dom-

')  maigc,  et  sera  il  encore  taillé  de  l'avoir  plus  grand,  si

»  

lii'envoycz  bien  tost  vers  lui.  »  Lequel  capitaine

mist  lesdictes  paroles  en  sa  mémoire  et  imagination,  et

sceut  depuis  que  ledict  jour  fut  quand  le  connestable

d'Escossc Michael Bromley (talk) 15:29, 31 December 2024 (EST)